SVS Prime Pinnacle Floorstanding Speaker - Each

They bring life and emotion to any size room, pair with a PB 3000 you can't go wrong

I'd read a review on Audioholics about how impressive these speakers were without a subwoofer. I trust Audioholics as I've followed their website for years but for some reason I had my doubts that it could be that good without a subwoofer. I guess I should never doubt them again. These speakers sound amazing! The bass output is really damn good as you would expect from a company that started off making just subwoofers. The bass response in my midsized room is awesome. Is it gonna hit the deepest lows, of course not. But if you don't have a subwoofer yet like me, it's definitely going to be good enough till I can get me one. If you're considering these, I say go for it! They have a 45-day return policy with free shipping if you don't like them. I suspect almost none of these have been returned.

I absolutely love my SVS prime pinnacle speakers. I'm almost through the break in period and they sound out of this world.
The warmth of both speakers is so incredible.

I decided to buy the prime pinnacles after having my old Polk Monitor 70 Towers since 2012 or so and purchasing both the elevations and prime center. While the Polk towers were pretty good they cannot really compare to the clarity and sound of these. Highs sound more natural, string instruments just sound right (I don't know how else to explain it) Overall I was impressed enough with SVS's center, and elevations enough that it finally made me pull the trigger on the pinnacles. I did not really have the space to the sides the Ultras needed and while I worried I might regret going for the pinnacles they have worked perfectly in my room.

Webster defined Pinnacle as the highest point of development or achievement. SVS’s designers & engineers have achieved this with the Pinnacle of sensible sound design. The first thing you notice is the weight, 57-lbs each. Then you see the fit & finish and the beauty of the high-gloss black lacquer which completely seals the speaker cabinet. Once placed, I connected the speaker cables (8-gauge OFC) the weight of which broke a speaker terminal went adjusting/moving the speaker toe-in. I upgraded the the terminal posts with heavy duty gold plated posts. This is my only compliant, thin walled speaker terminals. The Pinnacles love power, I drive them with twin Halo A21 bridged into Mono (400 watts per channel). They’re connected to Yamaha’s A3040, configured into a 11.2 surround with twin subwoofers (SVS PB1000 Pro & Paradigm PW2200). After 7-days of break-in I began the serious evaluation. The A3040 was set to direct and I selected the 1981 Half-speed Master vinyl “One-on-One” with Earl Klugh & Bob James. Immediately the ensemble was in front of me with a very open and airy sound. Balanced mids with highs that allow cymbals to sizzle. Bass is balanced and controlled which gives the music its depth. The time SVS took to develop the speaker’s voice is evident. Cabinet design equivalent to speakers costing twice as much, rear firing tuned ports, superb black piano finish and the best cross-over I’ve heard. The soul of this speaker is the 3-way cross-over used. The imaging is the best I’ve heard and I’m a (old) Time Windows guy. I highly recommend these speakers. You won’t be disappointed.

I've had my Pinnacles for about 14 weeks and they are superb. The Pinnacles are very neutral, dishing out everything handed to them. I listen mostly to classical and jazz, and these speakers are very dynamic and throw a very wide soundstage, several feet beyond the outer edges of the speakers, when the recordings contain that information. Actually, I have found that many of my CDs have a greater soundtage width than what I thought when listening through my previous speakers. Before the purchase I was skeptical that the relatively small woofers could do the job that the 2 ea 10" woofers were doing with my previous speakers, but they did indeed prove themselves. Bass is very deep, and with music I find that I don't need to power up my subs. I found that the Pinnacles needed about 50 hours to break in for the treble to smooth out. I listen in a 16' x 16' room, and the speakers fit in very well. Using the Carver Crimson 275 tube amp, they fill the room more than adequately with beautiful sound. Highly recommended.

So I've had these for a little over a year now. They sound great, but seem a little bright in the tweeter and midrange department. I think this is because of my receiver just isn't pushing enough power to them. I will be getting a power amplifier to drive these in the near future, I really feel that a power amp will do the trick, sadly with a 2300.00 receiver doesn't have the raw power that they need. I will send in a new review when I get my power amp. Thanks SVS for a beautifully built and great quality product

I recently replaced my 20+ year old Polk R40 mains with a pair of SVS Prime Pinnacle mains and I must say I am blown away by the sound. I was a bit hesitant spending this much money on a pair of mains but my other SVS speakers (Prime Center & PC-2000 Powered Subwoofer) did not disappoint so that made the decision to add the Prime Pinnacle mains that much easier. I am loving the sound of these. Thank you SVS!

Fantastic excellent Welbilt solid nice to have a company that cares about the people getting harder to come by.

I switched out my Klipsch towers for the SVS Prime Pinnacles. The reason I switched was to match the finish of my SVS subwoofer. The piano gloss black is beautiful and the speakers perform so much better than I could have imagined. They sound amazing and have so much clarity. I would have switched much sooner if I had realized how much better they sound than my previous Klipsch towers. Just wanted to say that Klipsch makes a great product but for my ears SVS is the clear winner.

Only had them for 1 week but I have listened to all genres of music in my quest to run them through the paces. Connected to my Yam A4A and Emotiva A-500 amp (only 3 of 5 channels connected: L+C+R+), the Pinnacle Towers look as good as they sound. The bass is excellent though I have the SB1000 Pro and PB 1000 subs so bass is not an issue for my system. I moved from Klipsch RF 82 towers with their horn tweeters that are bright in comparison to the Pinnacles & it's a welcome upgrade. The Klipsch are more 10 years old and I've been looking forward to taking advantage of the new loudspeaker technologies.

First off I was very impressed with the packaging and shipping of the speakers. Well thought out boxes and protection from the Fedex beasties. I am running these with a 2 channel Integra 100 watt receiver and a subwoofer. They are the mains for my 2 channel entertainment system. I have been running them for about a week now, so they are still breaking in. So far I am very happy. I have had and do have many different speakers and was interested to see how these would stack up. In my opinion you are getting the sound and quality of materials with these that you would probably get in speakers costing twice as much. They are what I would term as a fairly tight and musically accurate speaker. Not overly bright, but pretty accurate and neutral sound. I expect them to warm as they break in further. I guess when I was looking at this class of speakers, the main contender would have been Klipsch, and I've owned several different Klipsch speakers before, and have always thought of them as a very bright, sometimes to the point of fatigue with the horn tweeters. The tweeters on the SVS are very precise and smooth. They seem to dissappear into the sound stage pretty well. Mids are handled well by the midrange. Bass is pretty decent for this type of a tower speaker, but if you watch a lot of movies or like that earth shattering base you will want a sub. For music, like Rock and Roll, and classical, or anything besides rap, these will put out all the base you need, with adequate power. They image well and when you close your eyes and listen the highs, mids and lows all blend pretty seamlessly. One thing that is presenting very well, is their ability to stay tight with fairly high volumne levels. As long as your power is good and clean, they just get louder, no distortion or muddying of the music. The fit and finish is extremely good. Overall I am happy and would recommend them. I can't really find anything that I don't like about them. And I am sure they will continue to sound better as they break in.

I like the motto of SVS regarding making high end audio affordable, and these Prime Pinnacles do that with ease. I could have chosen to purchase JBL speakers at twice the price of Pinnacles, but I still felt the Pinnacles were superior. Equally important, it’s nice to do business with a company that is so very straight forward, no coupons, no gimmicks, just excellent speakers at a fabulous price. The piano gloss black is an excellent look and well worth the extra money.

What a great addition. I went from the bookshelf prime to the pinnacle’s and it brought out the fullness I was wanting.

Be carefull. They are top heavy. Don't let children near them.

My set arrived today….. I am an audio file from the 70’s I have had my share of high end audio equipment. I will say after setup and running all types of music through these Pinnacles I can say they are the most crisp immersive sound experience I have had the pleasure of enjoying.


If your looking for great sound at an affordable price these are the speakers for you.

Tauni

Wanted to watch GOT on something better than my television set so I purchased the Prime Pinnacles with the Ultra Center and SB3000. Had to say I was a bit disappointed at first but learned that adjustments to my A/V receiver were needed. Once I made tweaks to the speaker and bass levels, wow! Movies and music were just incredible. Movies and music come alive~ My wife and I watched every season of GOT all over again.

They do give a 45 day trial so if you don't like what you hear you can send it back free.
I honestly love these speakers. They don't have massive bass but, don't lack it either. It's a speaker where I can say its very neutral and calm to listen to.
I find myself listening to these speakers with out any fatigue. I own Focal speakers in my bar room/man room and got these SVS Pinnacle for my living room.
These Pinnacles are very outstanding where ever you place them. I found them to be very easy to hide because they sound great anywhere in my room. My Focal needed much more space and sounded very boom luster in tighter spaces where these SVS Pinnacles blended in with ease.
I would totally recommend these speakers if you are lacking space of placement.
If you have all the room in the world you can definitely find another speaker with a bit more bass or define speaker at the price range but, I haven't heard another speaker like these in my living room. PS: I have owned klipsch/polk/pioneer/Diamond/ and B&W. These Pinnacles are either equivalent or superior to my previous B&W 700 series. CHEERS!

My new Prime Pinnacle speakers replaced a pair of 1993 KEF Q-50 that were still providing good sound quality. I just knew there had to be significant sound improvements over almost 30 years. I think I found it in my Pinnacle speakers. These new speakers are being used for music only and so far you guys have nailed it!

Bought a pair of the Prime Pinnacle and an SB1000 pro to go with them. These towers sound better than other speakers I have heard at nearly twice the price. The SB1000 pro truly punches well above its price point. I would challenge anyone to find a better performing sub anywhere near the price. The inclusion of the app to control and adjust the sub is awesome and truly brings home audio into the 21st century. I am also using the Sound Base for an integrated amp solution and other than the normal "needs a remote" and "PlayFi is a bit clunky" complaints I have loved it. I can barely get to 20% gain on it before the volume gets out of hand. I am really hoping SVS releases a new revision of the Sound Base with those issues resolved. Originally I had purchased a $1200 Marantz receiver and it made the speakers sound horrible. Once I got the Sound Base hooked up, it was night and day. The towers came to life and had the middle and low end as well as the dynamics I was expecting. Less than half the price of the Marantz and it stomped all over it.

With all that being said, I think the best part of the experience has been in dealing with the support crew at SVS. From some questions on the initial setup to getting me squared away with licensing for the PlayFi MS Windows program they have been outstanding. Always helpful and friendly, never rushed to move on to the next call. Just a class act group of people on the support team. They have still proven it over the last week when due to my error in misplacing one of the rubber feet that were included with the speakers, they shipped me out new ones free of charge. When I realized I had not been specific about needing the rubber ones and had said carpet spikes, They again have shipped me out what I needed (again, the fault lies with me) once again free of charge.

I am not typically one to be a brand loyalist but in the case of SVS, as long as they continue to produce amazing products at very reasonable prices, I am an SVS customer for life. I just need to decide what loud speakers I want to setup in my office to go along with the second SB1000 pro I am currently using with another set of towers. What I can tell you is that whatever I choose, it will certainly have an SVS badge on it.

Excellent build quality nice sound but I do prefer the midrange sound of ultra bookshelf speakers the pinnacles do have deeper bass but I do recommend a sub with either set. I'm running a 2.1 system you can't go wrong with either set . But my favorite are the ultra bookshelf . Excellent sales and service with svs no problems with returns either.

After years of owning Sony towers along with a home theater receiver with a 5.1 speaker setup, I finally decided to spend some money and upgrade grade EVERYTHING. I spent roughly two months researching different brands of speakers and watching tons of YouTube videos. I finally settled on Svs based off of multiple good reviews and their awesome customer service. I wanted the Ultra towers but didn't feel like fighting with them for proper placement and I wasn't sure if I had enough space to even place them properly. Got the Prime Pinnacles along with the Ultra center, 4 Prime Elevation speakers, and 2 SB 3000's to complete a 7.2.4 Dolby Atmos system. Best damn decision I've ever made. The Pinnacles are some badass speakers. They can be driven with regular avr power but you will get the best performance out of your Svs speakers by using a good amp to truly wake them up. I've been using these speakers now for close to a year and I have been nothing but pleased with my purchase. Svs customer service is second to NONE !!! I accidentally broke a speaker jack a few weeks ago and was sent a free replacement within 2 days. They have even responded to my emails on Sunday's and generally within a hour after it was sent. Quite a few American companies can learn a thing or two from these guys.

Are there better speakers out there. Sure are, but you will pay substantially more and get crappy customer service to go with it. Price per performance, companies like Svs and Aperion are killing it. Enough ranting. Buy the speakers and enjoy. If you hate them for whatever reason, send them back with no questions asked after demoing them in your own home and you can still be friends with Svs at the end of the day.

Im in Love. I brought the emotiva setup to go along once done i.ll be more then Glad to send pictures of new setup with your Speakers.thanks for asking.n mr dick.d for all his Help

Best speakers I’ve ever owned!! Sound is amazing and they look great! If I ever need new speakers again I’ll absolutely buy SVS!

Straight up wonderful!!!

first the pinnacles, music just flows they don,t draw attention to themselves -well balanced and solid imagining also voices and instruments have spot on clarity
the drivers are well balanced . and the piano black finish excellent. very happy with my purchase

I purchased the Prime Pinnacle to replace a pair of Prime Satellites used as the front speakers in a 5.1 surround system with a PB-1000 sub. The sound is so much smoother when the full range of frequencies can come from the Main speakers and the sub does not have to fill in the bottom end. The performance is amazing for the price, and the speakers look fantastic in person. I'm very happy with my purchase and recommend them highly.

Great sound. I have had the Pinnacle Surround System with a PB 2000 Pro since replacing my old NHT system. I listen about to a fair amount of Vinyl as well as Home Theater, CD and Digital and they excel at all aspects. Tuning the system with the ARC program on my Anthem AVR it really seemed to open up the sound stage and I could not be happier. If I could give a 10 I would!

I set up the speakers and turned on my Denon AVRX3700 and was surprised how bad the speakers sounded. So i ran the Audyssey . they sounded better but not what i heard in the store. i do understand when they are home they do sound better but I am having trouble tweeking them to get the best sound. I am not sure if it is a receiver issue and I do not have the expertise to get them adjusted just right or do I need an amplifier for the speakers. don't get me wrong i do like the sound but I am still am trying to get them set just right

Absolutely stunning speakers...I can see and hear the blood ..sweat and tears in your product and the customer service is out of this world. I will continue to spread the word as SVS is the biggest secret everyone needs to hear and experience!!

i am a stickler for perfection. i have chosen the pinnacle because of the many positive reviews. they are absolutely the best for the money. i chose the piano finish, because it is better than sticky vinyl. the only other thing is, i would have paid more for a plywood cabinet ! because the weight of the dense, compressed board is outrageous.

I have been using some Canton’s with vintage gear (nothing over the top) for years. It’s sounded good, but I really wanted a full 3 way speaker setup and I’m not a fan of my stereo system having a sub. I’m too old school, 2 channels and out. These are the highest end speakers I’ve ever purchased myself, but I’ve worked in the industry helped a company get online who sold Marantz, Denon, Canton, AR and entry level hi-fi gear. Also being a musician, I appreciate good, full sound. A soundstage that feels three dimensional but also real, balanced. Not forced or heavy either on the top or bottom ends.

These speakers came with great reviews, but I was a little unsure about the balance as some said they were soft in the treble and heavy in the bass. But I emailed the company and they gave me immediate, great responses and with their return policy I decided to order them.

First off, the speakers finish looks amazing. They did a great job. But sound wise, at first I had a 100wpc vintage amp driving them and it worked pretty well. The sound was good, but all accounts, better for sure than my old cantons. But it still felt a little flat for me. So I swapped out with a 250wpc amp and boy did that fill it out. Gotta say, I’m incredibly happy with my purchase, especially for the money. These are great speakers with a nice design and fantastic sound. I’ve been listening to them every day since I got them and super happy. I only use them for stereo audio, so not sure how they are in a home theater, but that’s not their role for me. I’ll definitely recommend them to anyone looking for a speaker in this price point.

I have been using some Canton’s with vintage gear (nothing over the top) for years. It’s sounded good, but I really wanted a full 3 way speaker setup and I’m not a fan of my stereo system having a sub. I’m too old school, 2 channels and out. These are the highest end speakers I’ve ever purchased myself, but I’ve worked in the industry helped a company get online who sold Marantz, Denon, Canton, AR and entry level hi-fi gear. Also being a musician, I appreciate good, full sound. A soundstage that feels three dimensional but also real, balanced. Not forced or heavy either on the top or bottom ends.

These speakers came with great reviews, but I was a little unsure about the balance as some said they were soft in the treble and heavy in the bass. But I emailed the company and they gave me immediate, great responses and with their return policy I decided to order them.

First off, the speakers finish looks amazing. They did a great job. But sound wise, at first I had a 100wpc vintage amp driving them and it worked pretty well. The sound was good, but all accounts, better for sure than my old cantons. But it still felt a little flat for me. So I swapped out with a 250wpc amp and boy did that fill it out. Gotta say, I’m incredibly happy with my purchase, especially for the money. These are great speakers with a nice design and fantastic sound. I’ve been listening to them every day since I got them and super happy. I only use them for stereo audio, so not sure how they are in a home theater, but that’s not their role for me. I’ll definitely recommend them to anyone looking for a speaker in this price point.

Personally, I found these speakers lacking in body! Fit and finish is decent, but these speakers absolutely require a sub woofer with them! In their price category the are ok, but there are other contenders that will give them a run for there money! Customer service is spot on! But again in my opinion, the hype is more impressive than the the speaker! I’m running McIntosh equipment, and was hoping that these speakers would do it for me, but they didn’t! Also the boxing is poor and arrived in very rough condition! For the weight of the speakers, SVS should rethink their boxing materials and not use styrofoam as it breaks in the box causing the speakers not to be supported well in shipping! But you have an iron clad no questions ask in home trial, so you don’t have anything to loose!

Sound is great-much cleaner w/o grills. Placement is extremely important for optimal sound.

FedEx shipping leaves a lot to be desired. It seems its 7 days to delivery no matter where you live. One speaker box had 6 punctures but no visible damage to speaker unless it was moisture creeping in

I have a complete SVS Prime setup and I have to say the Pinnacles weren't surprisingly GREAT, but AMAZINGLY GREAT!!! The quality of SVS product are always superb. Speakers and cabinets. They are skinny and tall so I wasn't expecting a lot since the last time I have great speakers was in the 70's-80's. I do recommend them because they sound wonderful whether playing rock, classical or Jazz. I can't speak for country though. I will only purchase a speaker with a midrange, guess that shows how "old school" I am, but you can tell if a speaker doesn't have a midrange and these do !!!

I have a complete SVS Prime setup and I have to say the Pinnacles weren't surprisingly GREAT, but AMAZINGLY GREAT!!! The quality of SVS product are always superb. Speakers and cabinets. They are skinny and tall so I wasn't expecting a lot since the last time I have great speakers was in the 70's-80's. I do recommend them because they sound wonderful whether playing rock, classical or Jazz. I can't speak for country though. I will only purchase a speaker with a midrange, guess that shows how "old school" I am, but you can tell if a speaker doesn't have a midrange and these do !!!

I have a complete SVS Prime setup and I have to say the Pinnacles weren't surprisingly GREAT, but AMAZINGLY GREAT!!! The quality of SVS product are always superb. Speakers and cabinets. They are skinny and tall so I wasn't expecting a lot since the last time I have great speakers was in the 70's-80's. I do recommend them because they sound wonderful whether playing rock, classical or Jazz. I can't speak for country though. I will only purchase a speaker with a midrange, guess that shows how "old school" I am, but you can tell if a speaker doesn't have a midrange and these do !!!

When I first hooked these up they sounded absolutely horrible, flat, and dead. After running them for a week they sound absolutely fantastic. The detail and balance has truly amazed me. For both music and theater they truly shine. I'm hearing details and positioning I never imagined. My one suggestion is for SVS to put each speaker through a work in period. Had I not known to wait, I would have returned them right away. The state they came in was very off-putting.

the speakers really made my system come to life

Excellent sound and value. Company is a pleasure to work with.

I just upgraded my 2 channel from some infinity reference and holy moses these speakers are fantastic easy to place not picky at all and the sound oh man I love it I looked at and research alot of other brands and I did not fall in love with any and I bought these unheard and im picky Ill keep em I love them Im already looking at get the ultra bookshelf speakers for my other living room oh man

Great speakers

For the last 35 years, I have used quite a few brands of speakers such as KLH,Paradigm,Polk,Pinnacle audio (not SVS company speakers) etc...
So, I decided to upgrade this year,and while researching for recommendations, I came across Prime Pinnacles! I read all the rave reviews in many articles and watched Youtube too! Then, I said to myself" Oh hell, It's Christmas" So, I ordered the pinnacles last week.. Fast delivery!
Set up was so easy, I toed the speakers in a little bit, according to instructions. I am using Emotiva audio XPR-2 power amplifier(now discontinued). It is a wonderful beast !!! 600 solid watts into 8 ohms each channel or 1000 watts into 4 ohms into each channel !!!!!
I loaded up a disc called "Denson DeMagic" frequency sweeper and demagnatizer for the whole system.
Then I started playing variety of music genres such as jazz,blues,electronic,classical .., using my Marantz CD player..
I wasn't bowled over initially about the sound that I was hearingat first, because I was so used to the sound of my Polks for the last 10 years!! So, I played music for 10 hours a day for 6 days ..
Then, I decided I would give these Pinnacles some serious listening time... Since I am a little biased in system setups, because it is my serious hobby, I thought my wife would be a very good neutral judge and be honest about her opinion on these new speakers.
I let her sit down in the sweet spot(middle of the couch) and played her some tracks she is very familiar with! Music of Vanessa Fernandez, Hugh Masekela,Boris Blank(member of electronic band Yello) Freddie Hubbard, and many others...
In the middle of listening to a track,she would exclaim, saying " WOW, I don't remember hearing those tiny details before, it is like listening to a total new disc" !!! With every recording it was like we were listening to new music again...
I was almost stunned to hear little details fleshing out of these very familiar tracks! It was unbelievable !!
Here are some comments during her observation "More detailed,better imaging,crystal clear voices,tight bass & soundstage" and she is also happy about the sleek look and the smaller footprint of these...
I am very thrilled to have these and I feel like a kid all over again playing with a favorite toy !!!
I spend my time listening to a lot of music of various genres... When I play the track called "TIME FREEZE" by Yello or Hugh Masekela with his trumpet, singing "LANGUTA", these Pinnacles come to life,and if I close my eyes,I feel like these musicians are right in the middle of my living room !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is unreal what these $1600.00 speakers can do!
My kudos to the entire SVS team for making such a great product for such a low price !!! BRAVO indeed !! SVS president Gary Yacoubian, must be a very generous man who likes to please audiophiles by offering such a solid performer for under $1600.00
I can imagine how well these will perform by adding a pair of SVS subwoofers !! Oh well, it is only a dream for now !!!!
Don. Ranjith. Senanayake
Santee, CA 92071

I was worried when replacing a set of loudspeakers that I have lived with and enjoyed since 1978...Dahlquist DQ 10's. I have to say, the Prime Pinnacles are a worthy replacement: bass is super as expected, but the crisp clean highs and midrange was a really nice surprise. Additionally, Imaging and soundstage is very good too! Nice product, don't worry about my 45 day trial, I'm keeping these. My daughter ended up with the DQ 10's (she has more room to properly place them) and I'm glad to keep a classic in the family.
Tom

I am really impressed with these speakers. Before this I had some Focal Chorus Bookshelf speakers with a Martin Logan subwoofer. I knew that I always wanted something more as I have a pretty large room to fill (kitchen, dining room, living room open floor plan). I was considering going with Focal but I had heard a lot about SVS and connected with the brand very well. The trial period made it a no brainer to try these first. All I can say is wow! Speakers are detailed and just sound amazing. You really get a great sense of the sound field with where singers and different instruments are. Additionally my wife was always a little annoyed with the 1000 watt subwoofer I had and I think I will just be doing these alone without sub as they go down low enough and sound so much more pleasing to the ears. I was also happy that I could easily power these with a Yamaha receiver I got at costco.

I really like these speakers. The sound is amazing, its a big difference from my old setup. They have a amazing look and finish to them. I have heard some speakers that sound good but these have awesome mids which I can hear the vocals a lot clearer than with my old setup.

Best speakers that I have ever owned. I was not sure that my 74 year old ears would appreciate such fine speakers, but that idea was blown away with first recording that I played. The vocals are outstanding. The instrumentals are detailed. Smooth with no harshness. Old CD's have been given new life and movies have detals that we had never heard before.

My Prime Pinnacles sound amazing. Exceeded my expectations.

Best speakers that I have ever owned. I was not sure that my 74 year old ears would appreciate such fine speakers, but that idea was blown away with first recording that I played. The vocals are outstanding. The instrumentals are detailed. Smooth with no harshness. Old CD's have been given new life and movies have detals that we had never heard before.